在加拿大經(jīng)歷了近3年的居家監(jiān)禁生活后，華為首席財(cái)務(wù)官孟晚舟日前已經(jīng)安全返回中國。孟和美國相關(guān)法院達(dá)成緩起訴協(xié)議，美國也撤回對她的引渡申請。對此，CGTN主持人田薇獨(dú)家專訪了著名暢銷書《美國陷阱》的作者、前法國阿爾斯通集團(tuán)市場和銷售總監(jiān)弗雷德里克 皮耶魯奇（Frédéric Pierucci）。皮耶魯奇是全球知名的“吹哨人”，專門揭露美國的“長臂管轄”問題。因?yàn)樗缒昃陀H身經(jīng)歷了美國政府利用“長臂管轄”、《反海外腐敗法》等司法武器，拿公權(quán)力和國家暴力，打擊美國企業(yè)商業(yè)競爭對手。皮耶魯奇說：此次中國以國家意志對抗美國“長臂管轄”，為世界立下了標(biāo)桿。他認(rèn)為，其它國家雖然現(xiàn)在不說，但是心里一定印象深刻。未來面對美國的“長臂管轄”，要像中國一樣據(jù)理力爭，才有出路。

　　田薇：華為創(chuàng)始人任正非的長女孟晚舟，平安回到中國。聽到這個(gè)消息，您做何感想？Tian Wei: What do you make of the latest development with Ms Meng Wanzhou, the eldest daughter of Ren Zhengfei, founder of Huawei?弗雷德里克 皮耶魯奇: 在很長一段時(shí)間里，她一定曾經(jīng)飽受煎熬，顯然，這對所有人來說都是一個(gè)非常積極的結(jié)果。這件事表明，如果一國政府愿意為之付出不懈努力，能夠很大程度上推動此類事件的解決。在我看來，這標(biāo)志著中國的一個(gè)巨大勝利，因?yàn)檫@確實(shí)是第一次以一個(gè)國家的意志，成功回?fù)袅嗣绹倪@種長臂管轄。Frederic Pierucci: I think this is the end of a very longer period for her, which should have been very stressed. So obviously, this is a very positive outcome for everybody. And it shows that when the State is taking this thing into its own hands, you know, it can help a lot in both kinds of cases. So for me, I see this is a very huge win for China, because it's really the first time, but the country stand up to the long-arm jurisdiction of the United States in such a way.田薇：弗雷德，孟女士沒有認(rèn)罪，但她卻簽署了一份延期起訴協(xié)議。在你看來，這意味著什么呢？Tian Wei: Fred, she did not plead guilty, but she did use a DPA (Deferred Prosecution Agreement). What does that mean?弗雷德里克 皮耶魯奇：這意味著面對各種指控，她并沒有認(rèn)罪。她只是承認(rèn)了美國對這個(gè)案件的事實(shí)陳述，但沒有認(rèn)罪。據(jù)我了解 這種延期起訴協(xié)議通常適用于公司，而非適用于個(gè)人。個(gè)人與司法部簽訂延期起訴協(xié)議是非常少見的事情。事實(shí)上，在所有所謂《反海外腐敗法》案件中，我從未見過這樣的先例。這表明談判過程非常艱難，而且美國司法部在達(dá)成這種協(xié)議時(shí)肯定做了不少讓步?？傊@意味著她沒認(rèn)罪，也不會被認(rèn)定為有罪。這意味著，只要她遵守延期起訴協(xié)議的條款，美國將在一年后，也就是2022年12月，撤銷對她的起訴。Frederic Pierucci: It means that she didn't plead guilty of the counts that she was prosecuted for. So she admitted to a statement of facts. But she did not plead guilty. So this kind of agreement, deferred prosecution agreement, usually it's reserved for corporations, not for individuals. It's very, very unique that an individual can enter into a deferred prosecution agreement with the Department of Justice. In fact, for instance, in all Foreign Corrupt Practice Act cases, I have never seen such a thing. It shows that the negotiation has been very, very tough, and that the department of justice has really bent a lot to accommodate this kind of agreement. So basically, it means that she has not pled guilty. So she's not recognized as guilty. And it means that if she abides to the term of the deferred prosecution agreement, the United States are going to cancel the indictment against her in one year from now, in December of 2022.田薇：弗雷德，這當(dāng)然非同尋常。但我了解到，從美方毫無根據(jù)地逮捕你的那天起，到你離開監(jiān)獄的那天，你也經(jīng)受過不少煎熬。能否談?wù)劗?dāng)時(shí)你的處境？是什么最終導(dǎo)致你做出了后來的決定（所謂認(rèn)罪）？Tian Wei: And that makes a huge difference of course, Fred. But I know that you were struggling so much throughout the process from the day when they tried to catch you with unfounded circumstances to the day that you left the prison. Tell me more about how you struggled and what eventually led you to make the decision that you did.弗雷德里克 皮耶魯奇：我沒有孟女士那么幸運(yùn)，我的公司并沒有向我提供那么強(qiáng)大的支持，我的祖國也沒有給我提供強(qiáng)大的支持。因此，在幾個(gè)月的監(jiān)禁后，我真的感到非常孤獨(dú)。如果我想避免在美國的監(jiān)獄中度過接下來的15年，那么我就必須做出后來的選擇。因此，我的情況與她有著很大的差異。我從孟晚舟事件中觀察到，整個(gè)華為公司從頭到尾都在支持她。同時(shí)在外交領(lǐng)域，中國可能也為達(dá)成這項(xiàng)協(xié)議付出了很大的努力。你還要明白，我的案件發(fā)生在2013到2014年。當(dāng)時(shí)世界各國對美國的長臂管轄還缺乏了解。在阿爾斯通案之前，其實(shí)已經(jīng)發(fā)生過一些類似的案件，但大多數(shù)人都沒有注意到。直到阿爾斯通案發(fā)生后，法國才修改“反腐敗法”來保護(hù)法國公司。Frederic Pierucci: I didn't have the chance to have my company’s support like she had, and I didn't have a chance to have my country’s support like she had. So after a few months of incarceration, I realized that I was really alone and that if I wanted to avoid spending the last 15 years in prison in the United States, I had to do the choices that I made. So this is a huge difference. What I have seen in the Huawei case is that the whole company was behind her from beginning to the end. And also diplomatically, China probably did a lot of things to come to this kind of agreement. What you have to remember is that my case occurred in 2013 and 2014. At that time, the world was not so aware of the long-arm jurisdiction of the United States. There have been a few cases before the Alstom case, but those cases were unnoticed by most of the people. Even in France, we had to wait until the Alstom case in order to change the French anti-corruption law to protect French company, and so on.田薇：我記得孟女士得知自己可以回國后，談到過去近兩年半的時(shí)間里她遇到了重重難題，但她也談到即使是烏云邊上也可以有銀線。以我對于你話語的理解，你似乎也得出了類似的結(jié)論。Tian Wei: I remember Ms Meng after she knew she could go back to China, she talked about the past almost two and half years as absolutely disruptive moment of her life, but she also talked about every cloud has its own silver lining. If I understand what you just said, it seems that you are reaching similar conclusions.弗雷德里克 皮耶魯奇：是的，我認(rèn)為她一直在堅(jiān)持不懈地抗?fàn)?，而這需要非凡的勇氣。昨天（孟晚舟女士回國）發(fā)生的事情確實(shí)令人振奮。所以我認(rèn)為她選擇不放棄是正確之舉?；仡欉^去兩年半的時(shí)間，她本人、她的家人、她的父親，以及所有人都必定會百感交集。也許到頭來，沒有任何一個(gè)歐洲國家會說出來，但每個(gè)人內(nèi)心深處都應(yīng)該為這個(gè)結(jié)局感到欣慰。因?yàn)檫@確實(shí)是第一次有國家正面回?fù)裘绹偪竦拈L臂管轄。事實(shí)上，這件事將使許多其他國家受益，前提是他們有勇氣做同樣的抗?fàn)?，起身反抗美國的做法。對于未來，讓我們一起拭目以待，這起事件將有望成為歷史性轉(zhuǎn)折點(diǎn)。反觀今日，這并不意味著一切都會好起來，因?yàn)槲艺J(rèn)為美國不會停止將法律用作經(jīng)濟(jì)武器。雖說如此，至少現(xiàn)在我們看到，那種做法會遭到堅(jiān)決的回?fù)?。Frederic Pierucci: Yeah, I think she was amazingly courageous also to continue to fight back. And yesterday's result is really amazing. So I think she did the right thing not to give up. Those 2.5 years have been also very, very complicated for her, for her family, for her father, for everybody. At the end of the day, no European country will say this, but everybody deep down should feel grateful to what is happening here, because it's really one of the first time that a country is really standing up to the United States to stop this craziness of long-arm jurisdiction. In fact, this will benefit a lot of other countries providing they have the courage to do the same thing, stand up and fight back. Let's see what happened, but this is probably going to hopefully going to be a turning point. Now, it doesn't mean that everything would be easier now, because I think the United States will not stop choosing their law as an economic weapon, but at least now we see they could get some response to this.